Category: Q&A Series with Australian Historians

Q&A with Richard Bosworth

In this week’s Q&A, Professor Richard Bosworth reflects on a long and distinguished career as an historian of Italy, which has taken him from Sydney University to Jesus College, Oxford, via UWA and Reading University. He muses on the ‘great man’ view of the past and the value of history, and delivers a scathing assessment of the state of Australian historiography. On a brighter note, he reminds ECRs to enjoy teaching when it arises and to aim for the world.

1. BosworthRichard Bosworth did his undergraduate, Honours and Masters of Arts at the University of Sydney, then a PhD at Cambridge (St John’s College). He taught at Sydney University in 1965-66 and from 1969 to 1986, the University of Western Australia from 1987 to 2011 and Reading University from 2007-2011 (shared with UWA). He has been a Visiting Fellow at St. John’s College and Clare Hall, Cambridge, Balliol and All Souls Colleges in Oxford. He was also a Visiting Professor at Trento University in Italy. He was a Senior Research Fellow at Jesus College, Oxford 2011-7 and has just been made an Emeritus Fellow there. Richard’s last three books have been Whispering City: Rome and its Histories (2011), Venice: an Italian History (2014), and Claretta: Mussolini’s last mover (2017).  His next book will be Eclipse: The Waning of Benito Mussolini 1932-8 (submission due 2020).  In 2015, he edited with Joe Maiolo volume II of the Cambridge University Press History of the Second World War (3 volumes).

1. Was there a moment when you discovered your love of history?

When I was about five, my mother gave me her South Australian school text from the 1910s, T.F. Tout’s History of the Kings and Queens of England, and it remained my favourite childhood read and re-read. I had a fine history teacher at the unlovely Sydney Church of England Grammar School (‘Shore’), Jackie Colebrook, and then at university I was taught most notably by Ernest Bramsted in Second Year Honours, and by Neville Meaney as my supervisor for an American topic in my fourth-year thesis. My interest in history was also reinforced by my lifetime partner, Michal, whom I met when we were 18 in Bramsted’s Honours class and then greatly strengthened as we had to endure the worst history course in the world, taught, if that is the right word, by Duncan MacCallum on colonial Australia in third year. The story needed topping off with our discovery of Rome in 1967. Our first guide there was Edward Gibbon, on whom, to my immense pleasure, I had done my ‘Method Essay’ in History IV, and whose Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Mike had given me for my 21st birthday. Gibbon is my most re-read historian in adulthood. Among many other things he is a model of a historian working on the world.

2. Why did you become an academic historian?

I am a hereditary academic. I did my Cambridge PhD in the 1960s, my father his in chemistry in the 1930s and my daughter, Mary, in the 1990s, in criminology, so she is now a professor of the subject in Oxford (following an undergraduate history degree at UWA). Can it be inevitable that, every 30 years, a Bosworth does a Cambridge PhD? There were moments when I could have become a lawyer or a diplomat but they were turning points when history failed to turn. I was never likely to become an administrator.

3. Can you explain what draws you to Italian history?

A mixture of accident and Mike’s and my discovery of Rome, so much more fascinating than Cambridge, which, in 1966-9, had little to offer the married graduate student. I was doing a doctorate on Britain and Italy but our first time in Rome convinced me that Italy would be more fun. So I started working on Italy and the world, thus my first book, Italy, the Least of the Great Powers (1979). Once appointed to Sydney University, with its cosmopolitan interests and keeping of Australian history under control, unlike Stuart Macintyre, I had little difficulty as a young lecturer in enhancing my experience and knowledge of a country outside Australia, in my case, Italy. I was helped quite a bit by the establishment of the cross disciplinary F. May Foundation for Italian Studies of which I soon became Deputy Director. When my children were in their teens and it was a little more difficult than it had been to visit Italy, I did for a time drift into migration history but I always taught Europe and so was saved from an Australian fate and, by the 1990s, was back with Italy again following the diversion of my historiographical (and teaching) book, Explaining Auschwitz and Hiroshima.

4. Your philosophy of history has been to reject the ‘great man’ view. And yet you are a renowned biographer of Mussolini. Can you explain the seeming disjuncture?

I wrote a biography of Mussolini because I was commissioned to do so, just before my quadruple cardiac by-pass in 1999 (my surgeon had aimed at five, but said encouragingly that he couldn’t find a fifth vein). I certainly did not place a focus in my study on Mussolini and Mussolini alone, just as my latest book, Claretta: Mussolini’s Last Lover, combines a biography of Claretta Petacci, with study of such matters as the Italian family, Catholicism, Rome and my longstanding themes on the multiplicity of histories eddying through Fascist Italy, despite its theoretical totalitarianism. So, no great men (or women) really.

5. Our research often becomes more blatantly autobiographical as we get older. How do you think your choice of research topics has reflected your personal preoccupations, and how have they changed over time?

I’m not sure that I agree with the thesis. Isn’t our research always a little autobiographical? Anyway, in my case, after my by-pass and my settling down to write the biography of Mussolini, in my second life as it were, I changed from being essentially a teacher of undergraduates, especially first years, in Australia, an activity which I loved, into a global ‘trade’ historian. Perhaps Nick Stargardt of Magdalen College is to blame, because, when I was a visiting fellow at Balliol College in 2001, he introduced me to my agent, the excellent Clare Alexander. Under her aegis, I wrote Mussolini’s Italy for Penguin and then Rome, Venice and Claretta for Yale University Press. I have a new contract with Yale for a book called The Eclipse, due 2020 (when I shall be 77), about how Mussolini turned from being a ‘good’(ish) dictator in 1932 into the worst of them in 1938 and what the change tells us more generally about dictators and attitudes and approaches to them. In between my successive trade books, of course I kept writing quite a number of more academic articles, chapters and book reviews and edited the Oxford Handbook on Fascism and volume II of the Cambridge History of the Second World War. Such activity allowed me to make my now treasured move from UWA to Jesus College, via Reading, eventually resulting in my newly minted British citizenship.

6. Do you have a favourite historian of Australia?

I rather liked my thesis on Manning Clark that Clark became an Australianist of his idiosyncratic kind because he was dropped from the Oxford cricket team for a notably incompetent public school wicket-keeper and never forgot the resentment. Tony Cahill (what a wonderful man and great, virtually unpublished, historian), and I first introduced Clark to our Late Modern European History unit to annoy our parochial Sydney University Australianists, just beginning to get out of hand in Sydney, too, to try to show them that the chief themes of Australian history, were, and of course, are universal. I rarely read Australian history any more. Too parochial.

The new Cambridge University Press History of Australia is a case study of such dire parochialism. Italian-, Greek- and Lebanese-Australians etc do not appear in its index but cane toads do. The portentously entitled ‘The History Anxiety’ final chapter by Mark McKenna assumes that the only history ever taught in the country is national. Maybe McKenna should do a case study of the practice over most of the years after 1945 at Sydney’s universities in remedy. He might also like to write out a hundred times that Chris Clark (Sydney) and Lyndal Roper (Melbourne) are the Australians who currently hold the Regius chairs at Cambridge and Oxford, arguably the most prestigious in the discipline in the world.

7. History rose in the academy as a publicist for the nation-state. It no longer plays this role. Indeed, many academic historians in Australia are critics of the national project. Have we outlived our usefulness? Has the nation outlived its own usefulness?

History of a modern kind rose first in the Enlightenment (although Ammianus Marcellinus in the 4th century, for example, wasn’t too bad), celebrating humanity and rationality (see Gibbon). Grovelling service to the nation came later. My commitment has always been to the Enlightenment version and to the Dutch historian Pieter Geyl’s view, after he almost fell for fascist-style Dutch nationalism in the 1930s, that a historian must be devoted to ‘criticism, again criticism and criticism once more’. Both the nation and the anti-nation need to be made thus subject to review.

We live under neoliberal hegemony. I am sometimes tempted to think of it as neoliberal totalitarianism, which prefers the global to the national but can still drum up nationalist chat (viz Trump, Brexit and I fear almost all Australian historians). I am simply a rootless cosmopolitan and always have been, now very cheerfully in sanctuary at Oxford, an oasis of old-fashioned academic independence. I am especially happy to range free in the Bodleian library, go to the theatre, here, in London and Stratford and see brilliant British actors, and visit Italy when I want to. I also like still being an artisanal historian who writes his books without the ‘help’ of research assistants and ARC grants.

8. Do you feel confident about the importance of history to the well-being of humanity?

Yes of course, although history is only one of the crucially humane humanities. I always thought university teaching in history should purvey criticism and thus encourage a critical society. In 2017, the dire state of the world (and my old age) make confidence wear thin on occasion. But the only way to be a serious human being is to follow Gramsci’s advice and combine optimism of the will with (a critical) pessimism of the intellect.

9. Have you had mentors over the course of your career? How important are they?

I’ve always been someone who bit the hand that fed me (until I came to Jesus College of which I am unnaturally fond) and so the first answer is no. I am also no fan of bureaucratised mentoring of the currently fashionable kind. It fosters that horrible creature located in Australian universities and called a Dean. However, I have had a number of helpful colleagues over the years, some senior, some technically junior, who have stimulated me as a historian. If I had to choose one, it would be Tony Cahill.  I should add though, in my usual failure to fit national norms (if I am meant to be ‘Australian’), I have never had a mate and never wanted one. Mike (my wife) filled that role and many more. I have also never been to the beach, never enjoyed a BBQ, never been to the ‘Bush’ and no member of my family has ever served in the national armed forces.

10. You have said that there is a clear difference between a beautiful sentence and an awful sentence. What significance do you attach to the beauty of an historian’s prose?

I love writing and feel ill and diminished without doing it most days. However, beauty is of course in the eye of the beholder and, as I have recently seen in a hostile review of Claretta in the Wall Street Journal, there are at least some people, well, one, who think(s) I cannot write at all. I am certainly chuffed to have sold more than 100,000 books and to have published well over one million words since my by-pass and second life.

11. Do you conceive academic history primarily as an art or a social science? Do you endeavour to convince people with rational argument or by weaving an emotional spell?

I’m not hostile to social sciences, despite having found up-to-second-year-university psychology a joke in 1961-2. After all, my daughter is a criminologist. However, I guess my native scepticism extends to almost any theory, for example, about Fascist totalitarianism, and that attitude leaves me more in the art camp. I certainly aspire to rationality, although I do think that in a democracy, historians must be wrong, too (whatever right and wrong mean). I do not believe in a single Truth.

12. What advice can you give to early career historians about their careers?

Aim for the world and enjoy teaching when you can do it.


Q&A with John Maynard

In this week’s Q&A we talk with Professor John Maynard about what inspired his love of history, who he writes for, and the future of academia. He has some fantastic advice for ECRs, reminding us to read widely, work hard and with passion, and to never be afraid to listen and take advice.

Screen Shot 2017-09-07 at 11.44.53 AMOver the past decade Professor John Maynard has established himself as the foremost Indigenous historian in Australia. Since entering the University environment in 1993 he has achieved a Diploma (Aboriginal Studies – University of Newcastle), Bachelor of Arts (Aboriginal Studies – University of South Australia) and was awarded his PhD with the University of Newcastle in 2003. His books Fight for Liberty and Freedom (shortlisted for the Victorian Premiers History Award), The Aboriginal Soccer Tribe (a highly commended finalist for the prestigious Walkley Award) and Aboriginal Stars of the Turf (Dymocks Readers Choice) have received high acclaim. His research has concentrated on the intersections of Aboriginal political and social history and made significant contributions to the research fields of Aboriginal, race relations and sports history both nationally and internationally.  His work has impacted through a wide range of important research articles published in major peer-refereed journals and publications in Australia, United States and England. His work examining the rise of organized Aboriginal political activism during the 1920s has been recognized as groundbreaking including the revelation that African American influence and inspiration (particularly, Marcus Garvey and the Universal Negro Improvement Association) played a part in the rise of the early Aboriginal political movement has challenged the previous misconception that it was largely non-Indigenous Christian and humanitarian influence that drove Aboriginal political mobilisation. 

1. Was there a moment when you discovered your love of history?

I always had a passion for the past or at least as long as I can remember. I do not look back fondly on my school years as there was nothing about Aboriginal history or culture in the school texts of the 1950s and 1960s. But I always loved to read and I read as much as I could particularly from a young age on history. I wanted to know what had happened or what had been constructed as had happened.

2. When and why did you decide to become an academic historian?

I actually did not decide it was all an accident. I was thirty-nine years of age having left school at the age of fifteen and had no educational qualifications at all. I was just undertaking some family history on my grandfather a high profile Aboriginal activist of the 1920s for family members. There was no academic path to follow in my family. I was only going to write something up in a nice exercise book include some of my grandfather’s letters, old family pics and newspaper material and present to the family. I went to the Wollotuka centre at the University of Newcastle just to touch base and maybe get some advice on other archival material and institutions I had not considered. Tracey Bunda a Murri (Queensland) Aboriginal woman was at the time the Director and we had a brief conversation. The way I tell the story is by the time I had turned around Tracey had kidnapped me into enrolling into a Diploma course. I owe her a lot and I loved every minute of it nothing like my school years. A BA and a PhD followed in quick succession and a very personally rewarding journey was underway.

3. What are the big questions that underlie your research, and to what extent have you found answers to them?

Unquestionably the missing place of Aboriginal people in the nation’s history certainly for the greater part of the twentieth century was the major motivation. Initially I was driven with the desire to write my grandfather’s story back into the nations memory. But this was only the beginning. Aboriginal history is like a giant jigsaw puzzle with most of the pieces missing and I wanted to play a part of unearthing, researching and writing up these missing, overlooked, forgotten and erased stories of our past. If I lived another ten lifetimes I would not have the time to reveal all of the stories out there waiting to be told but at least I have played a part.

4. Who do you write your history for?

Without question, first and foremost the Aboriginal community. My work is directed at our people to read, enjoy, learn and gain inspiration from. Particularly our young people. Secondly, I write to inform the wider population of the history that for so long was hidden and obscured from this nation. When the country acknowledges and recognises the tragedy since 1788 only then can we walk together in a country that is just and equitable for all.

5. How has your background as a truck driver, barman and builders’ labourer affected your outlook as an historian?

Very important. I believe that academic and not just historians come through a protected cocoon existence of education. They have not in the main lived in the real world and experienced what it is like on the ground outside. Most have come through a school education system where they have been high achievers in school and university and do not carry those outside experiences which I believe are critically important in understanding the way of the world and people in it.

6. Who has had the greatest influence on the way you research and write?

I don’t think anyone influenced the way I write or research it is just my way of doing things. My grandfather and his memory is the source of inspiration that drives everything I do.

7. What do you think about the state of academic history? Does it have a bright future?

Yes of course academic history is of high importance. From an Indigenous perspective, we were for the greater part of the last two hundred and thirty-nine years missed and it was all about discoverers, explorers and settlers. Very occasionally a few Aboriginal people might have gained a mention as largely wandering aimlessly across the landscape. This was for the greater part of the twentieth century the bleached and biased history of the continent. For the past forty years there was a move to correct the myths of Australian history and deliver a balanced history of the past including recognising 65,000 years of Aboriginal connection to the continent and examine the tragedy of the Aboriginal experience since 1788. Sadly just when you think progress is being made some event happens to drag us back into a ‘History Wars’ mindless argument like the recent crazed monuments ‘beat up’ comparison to the United States. This event encouraged and fuelled by sections of the media panicked the wider population and even Prime Minister to think that there was some plot to steal, re-write and blacken the past.

8. Have you had mentors over the course of your career? How important are they?

I have had some wonderful supporters/mentors if you like during my early years. People like Peter Read, Heather Goodall and John Ramsland in particular provided great advice and support to me.

9. What advice can you give to history ECRs about their careers?

Read as much as you can. Work hard with a passion in your area of interest. Be organised and never be afraid to listen and take advice. It helps if you have a love of the archives and libraries. Build up a network of contacts. Enjoy your job and history – the past is a wonderful space to work and operate in and provides the opportunity to in essence time travel. ENJOY!

Q&A with Douglas Wilkie

In this Q&A we talk with Dr Douglas Wilkie about his love of solving history puzzles and the difference between writing as a freelance and academic historian. He encourages all of us to do what we love, to research meticulously, and to tell a good story.

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Q&A with Joy Damousi

This month we interview the Australian Historical Association’s Vice President, Joy Damousi, Professor of History in the School of Historical and Philosophical Studies at the University of Melbourne. Here she discusses what inspires her to write and teach history, encourages Early Career Researchers to give back where they can and reminds us to create and seize opportunities to research history.

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Q&A with David Lowe

In this month’s Q&A Professor David Lowe talks about his continuing love of history, why history matters and the intellectual heroes and mentors who have inspired him. He has some fantastic advice for ECRs, encouraging us to publish at both ends of the spectrum and to follow our passion, which he argues is crucial for sustaining our enthusiasm in the long run!

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Q&A with Lynette Russell

If you didn’t get an opportunity to meet our amazing and hardworking President, Professor Lynette Russell, at the AHA Conference in Newcastle last month, then here’s your chance to get to know her a little.  In this month’s Q&A she talks about how and why she is inspired to write history and her vision for the Australian Historical Association as well as the future of the discipline. As ever, she has fantastic advice for ECRs, encouraging us to not let the bureaucracy get us down and to seize every possible opportunity.

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Q&A with Stuart Macintyre

To get us all ready for a week of thinking and breathing history at the Australian Historical Association Conference, we have a Q&A with Stuart Macintyre, Emeritus Laureate Professor of the University and Professorial Fellow of the School of Historical and Philosophical Studies at the University of Melbourne. In this thought provoking piece, he talks about the changes that have occurred in academic history, reflects on the way historians’ choice of subjects are made both by interest and opportunity, and discusses the never ceasing thrill of opening an archive file at the beginning of a day of research. Stuart will be one of the panellists on our Early Career Researcher Round-table, ‘The Pot of Gold at the End of the Rainbow: Writing a winning grant application’, so come along and hear more of his fantastic advice for ECRs – all welcome!

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